Jordan Neely killer to be charged

We don’t know what the charges will be but Penny is expected to turn himself in on Friday .

I'm of two minds about this. I really just don't know. My gut tells me the guy didn't plan on killing him. But also, he should have modulated his fucking force and not held him by the windpipe. We just went through this with George Floyd, I mean fuck! Hello?!

They have to charge with him something. He held the chokehold on too long. It only takes a few seconds to choke someone out.

Me thinks that if charges are not that serious, riots ensue and of course it’s the weekend.

I heard on the news tonight that he’s being charged with manslaughter.

Even manslaughter won’t soothe the blood thirsty rioters

Manslaughter won’t fly with BLM. Strangulation usually requires a time to realize what you’re doing. Perfect weather in NYC, and very possibly other cities this weekend

They were labeling it as a “lynching” so, no, manslaughter will not fly.

He should be in jail, like the person he murdered.

R9, I saw a blue check saying that this is worse than George Floyd

R11 People pay for the "blue checks" now, you know that, right?

I don't think it's worse than George Floyd, but it's still murder.

Why is "killer" in quotation marks?

R13 You know why - OP might just have an opinion about this...

Penny did not intend to kill r13

Erm, he held Jordan Neely in a chokehold for 15 mins. If that’s not intent to kill…what is it?

Worse yet: all the people that watched it and did nothing. NYC hasn’t changed one bit.

"Penny did not intend to kill"

Sure, Jan

Second-degree manslaughter. District Attorney trying to stop demonstrations I suppose.

All those demonstrators protesting his death need to adopt a schizophrenic off the streets and give them a home.

They had to charge him. Whether he will be convicted is another story entirely.

Hey fuckwit R20 there's a lot of space between "adopt a schizophrenic" and "murder the homeless".

Well, OP, you certainly have a mission.

White people are going to make him millions. Kyle Rittenhouse got $2 million through GoFundMe.

R9 It IS a lynching.

I think the thread I spoke about this died out or was deleted.

But basically, most of the historic black lynchings in the US were criminals - mostly murderers. If you look at most of the horrific famous lynching photos, they’re of men who confessed or were charged for murdering a white person.

There were of course some who were innocent but a lot of them were actual murderers.

The problem with that is those men were not given their rights as US citizens, they weren’t given their day in court or their fair trial. They were instantly strung up and hung or set on fire or shot.

The scariest part about today is that the black men who are killed in similar fashion were killed for way less or crimes than the historic ones everyone universally agrees was wrong and bad and racist.

White people today will say the lynching of Thomas Shipp and Abram Smith in 1930 was wrong and racist but are on the fence with Jordan Neely and George Floyd, neither who were killed for being murderers.

This Hollywood idea that white guys got drunk and dragged black men out of their houses and lynched them is false. Most of the men were dragged out of jail cells. There were always “justifications”.

You think there were no Jordan Neely and George Floyd’s who were murdered back then? Please.

You have to explain the difference if you disagree.

Example via wiki

Jesse Washington was a seventeen-year-old African American farmhand who was lynched in the county seat of Waco, Texas, on May 15, 1916, in what became a well-known example of racist lynching. Washington was convicted of raping and murdering Lucy Fryer, the wife of his white employer in rural Robinson, Texas. He was chained by his neck and dragged out of the county court by observers. He was then paraded through the street, all while being stabbed and beaten, before being held down and castrated. He was then lynched in front of Waco's city hall.

They tied him to a tree and set him on fire.

The point is the idea of black people being second class citizens and not given their equal rights whether they’re good people or bad people.

Charges will be a let down. He will not spend a night in jail as he will Bail out . And highly unlikely for a conviction.

Such the pot stirrer, that OP...

Never bite off more than you can chew. If he couldn't get some guys to help with restraining, then he should have left it alone. Choker went too far and now is in trouble. Maybe he had war PTSD or something.

Where can one contribute to Penny's defense?

One way to tell me whether you believe black lives matter is to put "killer" in quotation marks.

There will be protests. Proud boys will crossdress as [bold]ANTIFAAAAA![/bold] and smash shit up. "concerned" "centrists" will wring their hands and worry that staged violence will get Trump reelected.

Welcome to the next 2 years.

[quote] All those demonstrators protesting his death need to adopt a schizophrenic off the streets and give them a home.

Or they should buy machetes and hack r20 to death since it's OK to kill people you don't like.

He was restrained by Penny and two other subway riders, R31.

[quote] Jesse Washington was a seventeen-year-old African American farmhand who was lynched in the county seat of Waco, Texas, on May 15, 1916, in what became a well-known example of racist lynching. Washington was convicted of raping and murdering Lucy Fryer, the wife of his white employer in rural Robinson, Texas.

It is unlikely he did it or that he "confessed" to the killing. It's more likely his white employer killed his wife and blamed it on a young Black man. I can't imagine that it was your intent to suggest that there was some rational basis for the horrific, barbaric racist violence perpetrated against Blacks pre-Civil Rights Act.

Bump . I hope marine gets off

R36

“I can’t imagine that it was your intent to suggest that there was some rational basis for the horrific, barbaric racist violence perpetrated against Blacks pre-Civil Rights Act.”

YES. I absolutely 10000% am.

Just like today there is a rational basis for Trayvon Martin’s murder, Michael Brown’s murder, Philando Castillo’s murder, George Floyd’s murder, Jordan Neely’s murder.

Just look at the threads. Go on Twitter. Jordan was a criminal so he deserved to be murdered. There’s the same rational basis that got those men hung 100 years ago.

Black people have always been the villains of whatever era of US history and white people have always played the victims. Always had some form of justification or rational basis to be horrible to black people.

My point is in a 100 years from now, white people in the year 2,123 will think white people in 2023 were racist bigots and horrible to black people as white people think that of white people in 1923. And I’m sure the white people of the future will continue to be rotten. It’s this crazy cycle.

Murder is planned, so, manslaughter is more appropriate.

R40, I believe they will Reduce it down

Intent can be formed in a second. It doesn't mean he got on that train intending to kill someone, but (I strongly believe but they will not be able to prove it) he intended to murder Neely whilst he was choke-holding him.

If Neely was a Marine he received training on how to administer a chokehold, and the difference between knocking somebody unconscious and killing them.

I imagine the prosecution will be digging into that.

I don’t think Penny realized his own strength. Sad story all around. It really wasn’t necessary to kill Neely. And marines are assholes. That’s a well known fact.

He shouldn't have choked this person to death. We also need the public to be protected from these unhinged and often violent and threatening people. Without the latter, there will be risk of the former when citizens take things into their own hands. Unfortunately, more often than not the people who are victimized by random violence (not just by the mentally ill or homeless) have it happen and nobody intervenes.

As for rioting, that needs to be nipped in the bud immediately. The actions of one individual against another are in play here. Stop blaming all of society when an incident like this happens. Given crime statistics, I don't think blacks would be too thrilled to have the crimes committed by some in their "community" conflated with all of their kind. But I guess we aren't allowed to talk about that, or point out the hypocrisy.

Theee won’t be any major rioting over this. It would have already started.

[quote]But I guess we aren't allowed to talk about that, or point out the hypocrisy.

Oh honey, you just did.

Now tell us more about their kind and their "community", Jethro.

"We also need the public to be protected from these unhinged and often violent and threatening people."

In this case, the mentally ill person needed protecting from the Marine.

And everyone else /was/ protected from the violent mentally ill person.

Of course he shouldn’t have been choked to death but if you’ve ever lived in NYC, you encounter this type of person so often that wishing they would go poof and vanish becomes second nature for most.

They are scary and stink like shit and loud and occasionally dangerous and 95% have no prospect of ever functioning as part of the general public. And there’s more every day. Government inaction is putting more and more normal people into bad encounters with these people. Deaths like this will become more common.

Illegal immigrants are going to start getting killed, too, and will probably get a lot less protection and protest than homeless people though they’re generally far less disruptive. Wait for it.

It’s all bad.

I love how the murder apologists tell us what these homeless people are like and how they smell, as if we are country mice who have never seen a public transportation before

r38's attempt to prove a "rational basis" for lynchings and extrajudicial killings is pretty sick, even by DL standards.

As he's already been told, many of the black men convicted of crimes who were later lynched did not commit those crimes. No, the point is not ONLY that they were denied due process, but that they had not committed the crimes at all, or had committed crimes that did not merit the death penalty from either the government or regular citizens.

[quote]Of course he shouldn’t have been choked to death but

Jesus.

[quote]I don’t think Penny realized his own strength.

He knew, he didn't care. Someone right next to him was reminding him that once someone defecates while in a chokehold, you have to let them go, and Neely had already soiled himself. Still, Penny kept saying that Neely hadn't soiled himself, which honestly in the video sounds more like an excuse than ignorance. Either way, he was being reminded at the time that he could catch a homicide charge for this and he kept choking the guy out despite that, so clearly, there was intent here.

R53 is screaming at shadows. I said he shouldn’t have been killed and prefaced my description of psychotic homeless with an indication that I was describing a common experience for NYC residents.

Further, I ended my comment with a sweeping condemnation.

Literally everything r53 wrote is bullshit. And don’t even try to claim you weren’t replying to me, cunt.

This country needs to stop giving into mob rule. Round up these fucks who want to destroy the city! We all know BLM was a grift.

Are they going to charge the other two, including the black guy that the media just so happen to choose not to show in a loop?

[quote] [R40], I believe they will Reduce it down

Second-degree manslaughter is as 'down' as homicide gets.

Didn't watch the film. How long after Neely stopped kicking and struggling did the marine keep choking him? Psychotics can have bursts of super-strength when stressed.

Right-wing crowdfunding site has raised nearly $200,00 for Penny's defense.

The jury will vote not guilty.

Perhaps his defense will be that he watched too many Austin Wolf vids. He chokes thinks out pretty regularly. And I’m pretty sure most of DL would like to see both heads AND tails of this Penny!

He should be held accountable. So should the mental health system of New York.

Look activists are telling me constantly to treat them the homeless as people and not ignoring them so this guy not only doesn't ignore the screaming crazy person but also gives him death which is exactly what he kept asking for saying he wanted to die so I don't understand the problem.

No need for the scare quotes — he killed the guy. You could use scare quotes around murder or manslaughter as these are crimes of which he has not yet been convicted.

Penny turned himself in .

He will be acquitted. Has he had his arraignment yet?

[quote] He will be acquitted. Has he had his arraignment yet?

I am curious to hear witness testimony. I think that will determine the outcome.

[quote] He will be acquitted. Has he had his arraignment yet?

Didn’t we have a “he won’t be charged” thread yesterday too? 😂😂😂. Listen I know you want to will your nutso opinion into reality but I really think this guy is going to jail. Sorry tootz.

If you look at all the comments OP has posted here you can tell he has an agenda R68.

He was protecting an old woman, penny did what he thought was the right thing at the time. The crazy guy has charges against him for assulting Another old lady.

Sadly, I disagree R73. A brief reminder that Bernie Goetz shot kids on the subway who demanded money and was acquitted.

R76 girl that’s 40 years ago 🙄. Will this be a jury trial? He has absolutely no change of acquittal. I remember we had a lot of these same comments leading up to the GF verdict and that was so clear cut in retrospect.

He should be a model when he gets out of jail.

[quote] Manslaughter won’t fly with BLM. Strangulation usually requires a time to realize what you’re doing. Perfect weather in NYC, and very possibly other cities this weekend

That’s the thing, there weren’t a lot of protesters. The media blew it up, but even some reporters admitted that the rallies haven’t been well attended. I wouldn’t be surprised if charges are eventually dropped. He won’t be convicted anyway when the homeless guy had over prior 40 arrests and punched a 67 yr old woman in the face.

Of course he didn’t intend to kill. Who wants all that paperwork?

The legal defense fund is now up to nearly half a million dollars.

Covid changed our brains.

It changed peoples' impulse control. Not the lockdown, not financial or social pressure.

The loss of taste and smell changed the brain.

No one who looks like that will be found guilty

Thank you, crazy subway moon walking black corpse, for bringing this stud to our attention

[quote] The legal defense fund is now up to nearly half a million dollars.

That’s so gross

Everyone wants to support beauty and strength r84

R84 is going to be more grossed out. In the two hours since I posted what was then current number ($498K), it has jumped $114K to $611K.

I suspect it will be over a million dollars by the time that we reach the morning.

^ it’s going to be a million in way less time then morning. I give it a few more hours, as it’s already over $625,000.

Heck, I'll contribute to the fund. Anything to help out a hot stud.

Guess we're about to find out if you can buy an acquittal in NYS courts.

Eric Adams came to speak at the CUNY law commencement, and...it didn't go well.

This should and will be pleaded out. It's on no one's interest for this to go to trial.

Am I the only one who thinks Mr. Penny may be gay?

I think it's that perm.

Black and white panelists discuss the crime on subways & this case.

It really is terrible and people have been cowered into submission. These people target those who they think they can instill fear in like women and the elderly.

What happened to “equity,” the concept of using different circumstances to treat people unequally to balance the scales?

The “equitable” outcome would result in Dan Penny not ever being charged, because of the person he killed and how he had been behaving.

The scenes on the local news today have just been insane, like something Paddy Chayevsky would have written in the 70s.

The family's lawyer speechifying with a picture of Neely in a cap and gown in the background.

The guy had 40 PRIOR ARRESTS for offenses that were escalating. One of his last: He punched a 67-year-old woman in the face. She told media she thought he would be punished, but he skated. He said he didn't care if he killed people and went to jail.

Where was his devastated family then, when he was traumatizing people? They could have gotten multiple handouts from the city to care for him. Apparently, they weren't big enough for their tastes.

R95, he also briefly kidnapped a small child. I have no idea what the answer is here but it’s not valorizing an unmedicated, violent schizophrenic.

R54 No.

Thomas Shipp and Abram Smith did commit murder. That’s how James Cameron survived his lynching.

First of all - I did point out in my original post that not all the lynched were guilty.

“No, the point is not ONLY that they were denied due process, but that they had not committed the crimes at all, or had committed crimes that did not merit the death penalty from either the government or regular citizens.”

Like George Floyd and Trayvon Martin. My fucking point. You’re basically saying “oh no back then it was all a fake witch hunt! Today is different!” It’s NOT.

Calling it “sick” is what’s exactly wrong with this country and George Floyd and Jordan Neely are dead.

Being a runaway slave was a CRIME too.

It’s not SICK to point out white people have ALWAYS found validity to murder black people, which is happening right now in this thread.

R98, understanding why things come about does not equal arguing a justification. The majority of people in this thread think what happened was a crime and should be punished. It’s just not as hard to understand a crime as, I don’t know, punching an old woman or kidnapping a child.

What does Travon Martin have to do with this? Martin was on top of Zimmerman violently slamming his head onto concrete. That presented a reasonable fear of imminent death or serious bodily injury which justifies the use of lethal force to prevent such death or injury.

If anyone has a gun or plans to get one, then please avail yourself of instruction on the law of self-defense. And never, ever talk to the police about what happened if you ever have to act in self-defense until you talk with your lawyer. And your lawyer will tell you to say nothing.

40 prior arrests.

Punching an old woman in the face.

Saying he didn't care if he killed someone and went to jail in a confined subway car, in a city where bystanders are being stabbed, shot, and slashed to death on a near-weekly basis.

R100 You proved my point.

Trayvon Martin was walking home and George Zimmerman instigated a fight with him because he was “suspicious looking”, which got Martin murdered.

You say the same exact bullshit white people said in the past to lynch and murder black people.

And R54, I’m not trying to prove “rational basis”, I’m proving that white people have always found a “rational basis” to murder black people.

Which as I said in R98 and as you can see in R100, is still happening today in 2023.

It's a mercy killing really. What future did this crazy guy have at the end of the day?

R96, his torso is way way too long.

I prefer men with broad shoulders, bigger pecs, and a V-shaped body, like 90's Arnold Schwarzenegger.

R102, R103, R104, you are taking this too far, beyond the specifics of this situation. This was not George Floyd. This was not Trayvon.

Jesus! Why is everyone so eager to flatten all black people into one type? Isn't that the antithesis of the movement?

This was a person who was threatening people in the enclosed space of the subway, who said he didn't care if he died or went to jail.

In a city where there have been multiple stabbings, slashing, and shootings in the subway in recent months.

He was not just strolling around or hanging out, minding his own business. He was menacing people who had good reason to believe he might have a knife or gun.

[quote] It's a mercy killing really. What future did this crazy guy have at the end of the day?

This is sad, but true. He was homeless, schizophrenic, had no family help and most likely drug issues. He was probably going to get more and more violent and eventually kill someone. I love how his ‘friends’ said he was never violent and a sweetheart. Obviously they missed the memo about how many times he was arrested for violent crimes.

I was once on a packed train during rush hour morning when a guy like this got on. He was ranting about Whites and Jews. A Jewish kid was holding a paper in his hands and he slapped it down and got in his face. He walked through the packed car cursing while everyone was just silent. It was honestly one of the most terrifying experiences of my life because you are basically trapped with a nut job that is capable of anything. It’s survival if the fittest and this planet is better off having a Daniel Penny on it than a Jordan Neely.

[quote] So should the mental health system of New York.

You mean the New York corrections facility.

R101, don’t forget him calling people faggots and harassing them.

[quote] Being a runaway slave was a CRIME too.

Oh, god, the gender studies graduate is with us.

[quote] Trayvon Martin was walking home and George Zimmerman instigated a fight with him because he was “suspicious looking”,

That is not what the evidence at trial reflected. Zimmerman never approached Martin. it was Martin who circled Zimmerman's car while he was still inside. It was Martin who stayed at the top of the T and hid behind a building waiting for Zimmerman. And it was Martin who came out from behind the building and approached Zimmerman on the path and physically assaulted Martin. That is what led to his death.

I'm sure you can find the trial transcripts online. A number of witnesses corroborated Zimmerman's narrative at various points along the narrative and testified at trial.

[quote] Being a runaway slave was a CRIME too.

Oh, god, the troll with a degree in gender studies is with us.

[quote] Look activists are telling me constantly to treat them the homeless as people

Unhoused people, bigot!

It's "People who are experiencing homelessness," R113, you pig. Kill yourself immediately.

[quote] Penny’s body is crazy.

I actually was taken aback by his perp walk. He was rocking that suit.

He is going to go onto bigger things because of this incident.

I don’t see how anyone who has ever ridden the subway in NYC can possibly find Penny guilty. Incidents like the one R107 witnessed happen multiple times a day. Neely obviously appeared to be on the verge of hurting/killing multiple people in the car. There’s a very clear reason why people stepped in to help Penny but not Neely. These rallies etc are preposterous, and Neely shouldn’t even be mentioned in the same breath as George Floyd or Trayvon Martin.

The lesson to be learned from all this is that it doesn't pay to be a good Samaritan anymore. It's way too risky. If you see a black man acting crazy or assaulting someone, just turn a blind eye and walk on pay. This guy has everything to lose. Whatever the drama is, stay out of it. Unfortunately, people have to fend for themselves.

If someone is acting crazy like the dead guy was, just act crazier.and nutter. Maybe that will.make them go, woah!

[quote] There are 1000's of Jordan Neely's on the NYC subway.

I read this at first to say, "There are 1000's of Neely O'Hara;s on the NYC subway."

[quote] I don’t see how anyone who has ever ridden the subway in NYC can possibly find Penny guilty.

Yes indeed, R116. All that Penny needs is one person on the jury who realizes this and isn’t going to be cowed and pressured into convicting Daniel. That’s it. And I wouldn’t be surprised if there may be several people on the jury who will come to a similar conclusion.

Oh, and the legal defense fund is now over $825K.

I read that he can choose to be tried by the bench and not a jury. That might be an option. If it is trial by jury, they better vet them well. Get Wall Streeters, not trust fund babies living off their parents or college students.

R120 - Honey, my cousin's non-refundable retainer for criminal cases is $5,000,000. That $825k isn't going to go very far.

Neely should not have been threatening people in the subway. But Penny was wrong for killing him.

[quote] Honey, my cousin's non-refundable retainer for criminal cases is $5,000,000. That $825k isn't going to go very far.

Well, honey, it’s only been up for a day and it has already reached $1 million bucks. Two hundred thousand in the last four hours. I suspect that he’ll be fine — even without your Cousin Vinny representing him.

All the defense will have to do is have Penny bare his saucer-sized aureoles and washboard abs to a jury to be let off.

The only reasons he was charged was because of professional protesters and politicians calling for it and Bragg, who only charges some people. When that store owner stabbed and killed the man who attacked him, he was charged too. It wasn’t until public outcry that they dropped the charges. Most people didn’t think Penny would be charged, but I knew he would because of the factors I mentioned. Meanwhile, how many murderers who have been released from jail are walking the streets to recommit crimes? I hope this guy walks and gets $$$, not because I think he was totally in the right, but because of all the bullshit.

The media narrative is now that Neely was a poor performance artist down on his luck. Evidently, journalists are unfamiliar with the concept of "unmedicated schizophrenics in crisis". For fuck's sake.

[quote] I read that he can choose to be tried by the bench and not a jury.

In NY it just takes the approval of the judge. In my jurisdiction - DC - it also requires the approval of the prosecutor as it does in federal courts. Very few states give a defendant the unilateral right to waive his constitutional right to a jury trial.

I honestly don't know what the best option is here for Penny. This would be a very tough decision. NY State judges are elected.

Regardless of how you feel, OP, he did actually KILL him, you moron. The question is intent, but there's no denying the man is dead and Penny is his killer.

Daniel Penny saved us all r130

The fact that he killed that psycho is incidental

R131, I'm not going to celebrate the death of someone like him who had a very tragic life.

R132 the 67 year old woman and the 7 year old girl who Neely assaulted are celebrating.

Your feelings are irrelevant because you are not the many victims of Neely’s reign of terror.

R125 - GoFundMe will be switching this off within the next day or two and refunding all donations- they did the same thing with Rittenhouse.

[quote] GoFundMe will be switching this off within the next day or two and refunding all donations

Well R134, it is quite fortunate for Daniel that his lawyers didn’t use GoFundMe. They selected GiveSendGo, and that site is not likely to shut this down or return the donations. They’re odious because they cater to the religious nutjobs and reich-wingers like J6 MAGAts. But as far as Penny is concerned, it was a smart move.

R134 Daniel Penny’s fund raiser is not on GoFundMe site, moron.

[quote]Honey, my cousin's non-refundable retainer for criminal cases is $5,000,000.

Your cousin didn't do a very good job defending El Chapo.

The people defending Penny on here are all just angry, pathetic, peasant losers.

Peasants? Not like that Klassy Neely family. They've already spent their imaginary proceeds on Cristal and plan on naming the next niece Jordan Cristal in loving memory.

R133, you do realize there can be something between outright celebrating and being devastated. He had a shit life with no support from the "family" who are now going to use him for profit. I feel sorry for the life he had and wished we had a system that could've helped him. No one should "celebrate" someone who already had a shit life having it end in tragedy.

You know the irony? The very people who tend to defend Penny worship Trump. A man who violently attacked countless women and he, unlike Neely, was given every advantage in life and still grew up to be a monster who rapes and attacks women. He's also stolen money and engaged in other criminal activity, and yet millions feel he's suitable to become president. Jesus fucking Christ, the absolute lack of introspection with people when it comes to their glaring hypocrisy.

[quote] I actually was taken aback by his perp walk. He was rocking that suit.

You’re such a loser

R144, are we talking maturity or actual age, because giving a "LOL" response considering the subject, would make me much older than you when it comes to the former. What a fucked up, underdeveloped idiot you are.

And I see your other responses in this thread confirm that you're a complete loser. Jesus Christ, you're a damaged motherfucker, R144.

Lol ^

Such anger for an old man

Oh the irony of an uncaring family who obviously allowed Jordan Neely to run amok for years, these same people will undoubtedly now all come out of the woodwork to profit financially from his death. They suddenly have money to hire lawyers? But couldn't help this man while he was alive and in dire need of a serious intervention?

This would not be the first time this has happened. The angry speeches, the public crying from family members, all to garner millions from a person they abandoned when he needed them. Typical behavior from people who seem to have no other legit way to make money. Where the fuck was his remaining parent, his father?

None of these uncaring absent families should profit from a family members death in this way.

After a brief choke hold, Penny, could have simply tried to hold Neely's arms behind his back, not kept him in a choke hold for all those minutes.

R149 someone in a mental state like Neely’s has brute strength- anything less than the restraint he was given would probably have resulted in him breaking loose with even more vengeance.

Lots of sad Magats on this thread

R142, your TDS is terminal and your life is officially no longer worth living: You are entirely consumed by the thing you hate.

Rehome your cats, cancel your MSNBC 360 package, and book the flight to Switzerland. It’s time.

R127 so you don't really mind if murderers are walking the streets just as long as it is a murderer you approve of? A thorough investigation should be done and/or people should be charged when they kill other people deliberately. Yes, I can see a case for self-defense, but isn't there also the question of the amount and kind of force that was used. It can be a heat of the moment defense, but the idea that that was the best possible action in the moment has to be justified since it ended in death. And if other passengers were involved in helping him ( I haven't watched the whole video) then the other issue becomes the minute Neely is on the ground, outnumbered with the Marine wrapped around him there's a moment when the balance shifted as to whose life was in danger.

The guy may be acquitted, but I don't see anything wrong with having a trial if that is what's necessary to establish the timeline of why it ended the way it did.

It all depends on how long he restrained him after he stopped resisting. If it was a length of time after Neely went limp or if he suddenly died just after he stopped resisting.

You do not have a trial just because. Unless he is convinced there is evidence beyond a reasonable doubt to convict, then the prosecutor has an ethical obligation NOT to bring it to trial. If there is reason to believe this is a legitimate self-defense claim or defense of others claim -which would be exculpatory, then that is reasonable doubt right there and therefore you do not charge.

Trying someone, even just indicting them can destroy a person. It is not to be taken lightly and left in the hands of a jury whose actions you can never predict.

This is a politically motivated prosecution. Pure and simple.

He fucking choked a man to death, I don’t care if his fee-fees are hurt by having to go to court

From the now closed thread at 299 Replies. WTF

[quote]That's utterly ridiculous. I don't want to live in a country that thinks it's OK to kill someone because of verbal threats. Words are words.

Facts: I'm going to kill you right now with my bare hands. And I don't care if I go to jail for life. You will be dead.

Query: Do you get to use lethal force to prevent that from happening?

Answer: Yes.

Lucky for you, R158, because Neely didn't say any of that.

Penny supporters are full of imagined scenarios

We're policing our own streets:

There's one group to blame.

R111 That’s not what happened.

There’s an entire 911 call that proves your story false.

I WOULD HAVE GIVEN HIM MY BEATING HEART. MY. BEATING. HEART. (does three neck rolls then takes sip of water).

Penny should do some prison time…he’s got to be held accountable for something.

I woulda said to Neely aGet OUTTA HERE

When is the trial starting?

The trial is many months away. His next court appearance isn’t until July 17. I would anticipate a trial in the fall or winter.

A bit OT, whatever happened to the Long Guyland Cesspool Princess, the one who shoved the old lady vocal coach and killed her?

His grifting family have got their GoFundMe going for $100K. Nothing like ignoring your nutjob relative the whole of his life and then cleaning up after his death.

R169 how much is the killer’s fund at now?

As of a minute ago, it’s up to $ 1,868,467.

Let's make it 2 million, Datalounge.

R167, or he could plead lesser charge and 🔥 time

I suspect that he’ll hit the $2 million dollar mark tomorrow. That money has been raised by over 40,000 individual donors.

When is the campaign going to start to get GoFundMe to cancel the fundraising for Penny?

It’s not through GoFundMe.

R174 well, no one ever claimed the racist shitheads didn’t have the numbers

[quote] or he could plead lesser charge and 🔥 time

True. A decision that he and his lawyers should make after obtaining and reviewing all the cell phone videos that are available, along with the witness statements from the passengers on that train. And then it will depend on what the DA is willing to agree to. Alvin Bragg is already under pressure from the family and some of the public for charging Penny with second-degree manslaughter instead of murder. So he may be hesitant to allow Penny to plead to lesser charges. Though public pressure should not dictate charging decisions.

Regardless of what the family wants, second-degree manslaughter was likely the correct charge because they probably don’t have enough evidence to justify bringing murder charges. If the defense counsel and Penny are willing to deal, the DA’s office has to decide whether a plea is the best they can hope for.

The 15-minute chokehold alone is very troubling, which is why they’ve been outlawed for police in a lot of jurisdictions. However, the prosecutors have to weigh that relatively strong evidence against the very real possibility of jury sympathy for Penny, the chokehold notwithstanding. Aside from this incident, Penny doesn’t seem to have any other negatives in his background. So there may be nothing to stop him from getting on the stand and apologizing with the hope that the jury buys it.

I think Penny is a great man

A lawyer will tell you that if he pleads guilty even to a misdemeanor, that will be enough to sue him into non-existence. The fund raising will evaporate into that. There is a bottomless pile of precedence for that. All of these people here, none of you have a friend/business associate you can ask their opinion of what is likely to happen?

The legal defense fund is now over $2 million dollars.

Beautiful 👆🏼 and will keep growing

I find it interesting this instantly became a race issue because Neely was black and Penny is white. Would people be up in arms if Neely had been white? I'm sure Penny would have acted in the exact same manner had the man on the train been white. How does race play into this?

It's only because Neely is black. Since George Floyd, ambulance chasers and professional protestors need a victim. Neely's family who ignored him are cleaning up with a GoFundMe.

In Dallas, a black guy murdered his Latina girlfriend because she went out of state to have an abortion. The woman had 3 little kids. NOT A WORD. Black guys can only be victims for the media, never villains.

Not a word^. A little media attention, but it’s over now.

[quote]Would people be up in arms if Neely had been white?

No. The ultrawoke residents of Antifaville celebrate the death of all white people. It is our Lord George Soros' way.

Next stupid question?

No r186, we just hope that people like YOU die soon. And painfully.

[quote]No [R186], we just hope that people like YOU die soon. And painfully.

Back at ya, bitch.

[quote] The 15-minute chokehold alone is very troubling

There was obviously not a 15 minute "chokehold". Just the fact that you can say a "chokehold" was going on for 15 mins tells you it wasn't a chokehold all that time. In fact, we don't even know if or when a chokehold was administered. You can't really tell from the video. He is still moving around for most of the time he was restrained from the video and according to witnesses. Approx 20 seconds after he stopped moving he was released and then Penny put him in a recovery position.

Penny is going to need every penny of the $2 million and probably more. The Zimmerman defense was $1.6 million and that was 10 years ago NOT in NYC. Lawyers alone in NYC would be about $800-900 per hour. Jury consultants alone can cost $100k and now there is so much research that needs to be done on potential jurors so that could double. Plus you will probably want the jury consultant to attend the trial - even more $$. Various experts will be needed and they are never cheap. Some of them will also be needed to attend part of the trial to see the government expert witness testimony.

R189 - In NYC top quality counsel is at least $2k and up. I know one guy who whacked a client for $4k for less than 15 minutes, although that was in London.

R190, wow! Criminal lawyers often charge less especially for this type of crime as opposed to white collar crime. Most everyday defendants just don't have the big bucks. And that is how they determine their rates - what the market will bear.

Even though they are raising money, the lead attorney Kenniff was in the service and may be more than willing to charge less for Penny.

The defense fund will keep growing, though likely at a slower rate than it has for the initial few days. It’s at $2,386,407, and will probably hit $3 million later this week.

A good defense lawyer will reduce his or her rate to get this case. It’s incredible exposure.

R193- A top-drawer attorney won’t take the case as 1) he already knows there is going to be a guilty verdict and consequently doesn’t want to lower his win/lose ratio and 2) he doesn’t need any more publicity than he already has. I’m not pulling this out of my ass, it was told to me by one of those guys (who regularly turns down this kind of stuff).

I was also told he can save a lot of money by hiring some schlump who can negotiate as short a jail term as possible. Obviously Penny won’t take this kind of advice, along with all the other schmucks posting here, which is why we read about this kind of thing in the paper more and more.

I hope you realize his defense attorneys started this fund and all proceeds go to them. Penny won't see, well, a penny.

The lawyers were upfront about the use of the funds:

[quote] Funds are being raised to pay Mr. Penny’s legal fees incurred from any criminal charges filed and any future civil lawsuits that may arise, as well as expenses related to his defense. All contributions are greatly appreciated. [bold] Any proceeds collected [that] exceed those necessary to cover Mr. Penny’s legal defense will be donated to a mental health advocacy program in New York City. [/bold]

It’s not as if they were ambiguous about the distribution. They never said that Penny would receive any of the money.

I don’t think that killing him was necessary. Overkill, no pun intended.

How long till a verdict ? You know major riots if Penny is acquitted. This will only help Trump

[quote] The lawyers were upfront about the use of the funds

😂😂😂

[quote] There was obviously not a 15 minute "chokehold". Just the fact that you can say a "chokehold" was going on for 15 mins tells you it wasn't a chokehold all that time. In fact, we don't even know if or when a chokehold was administered. You can't really tell from the video.

A witness said it went on for 15 minutes. People aren't just making it up out of thin air, moron R189.

There was a video clip up on Twitter of Neely confronting and attempting to assault some gay men, shrieking homophobic insults. He can rot in hell.

These comments were posted over the weekend on the legal defense fundraising page. Both individuals claimed to have had encounters with Jordan Neely.

[quote] The city’s government failed 2 individuals. The day before this incident i was on the L train when the deceased randomly started punching a young individual. People ran car to car. The whole train was evacuated on 2nd Avenue. I left and then came back 30 min later to see the guy who got punched standing there with a bloodied face waiting to give a report. I don’t know if he ever did. Systemic failures.

[quote] I’m a Democrat and NOT Christian but I live in NYC and had scary encounters with Jordan Neely. Danny didn’t deserve to be arrested.

Interesting, but unlikely that Daniel Penny knew about these incidents.

Even if these stories are true, the guy who got punched in the face is the only one who could rightfully kill him.

No one has the legal right to kill someone else just because they're "scary". There has to be imminent/immediate threat of harm.

These people cheering for Neely's killing is just as fucked up in the head as Neely.

R203 and sometimes people get killed because the person who kills them feared for their lives and didn't realize their own strength. I can think of plenty of murder victims who deserve sympathy. Neely was a timebomb. I'm surprised the bomb didn't go off sooner.

[quote] sometimes people get killed because the person who kills them feared for their lives and didn't realize their own strength.

The marine didn't even fear for his life, he took action as a vigilante.

Additionally, fearing for one's life isn't enough, there has to be imminent/immediate threat of harm. That's the law, whether you like it or not.

[quote] Even if these stories are true, the guy who got punched in the face is the only one who could rightfully kill him.

No. The law of self-defense also includes the "defense of others."

Neely was threatening people with physical harm or worse and that would have placed everyone in his vicinity at risk and in reasonable fear of imminent serious bodily harm or death. If someone says they are going to attack you or intimate they will kill you that IS a threat of imminent death OR serious bodily harm. You do not have to wait until you are harmed or a weapon is shown. As everyone should know you don't need a weapon of any kind to kill someone or seriously injure them. Ask the elderly woman who Neely punched in the face breaking her nose and orbital socket. And the woman he threw toward a train.

R206 A lot of assumption on your part. I never said self-defense didn't include defense of others. Also, I never said you have to wait til you are harmed or weapon is shown. My post was based on the 2 stories in R202 and this case here only.

And so far, in this case, there's no evidence that there was an immediate threat of bodily harm or death to anyone specifically.

You claim "if someone says they are going to attack you or intimate they will kill you that IS a threat of imminent death OR serious bodily harm". Absolutely true, but that's not the case here...so I don't know why you'd make up facts. A witness says he said "I would kill a motherfucker. I don’t care. I’ll take a bullet. I’ll go to jail." That's not directed at anyone specifically to qualify as an immediate threat.

[quote] A witness says he said "I would kill a motherfucker. I don’t care. I’ll take a bullet. I’ll go to jail." That's not directed at anyone specifically to qualify as an immediate threat.

I’m not R206, but you’re presuming, on the basis of this sole witness, that Neely’s words were not directed at any particular person or that no one in his immediate vicinity — they were on a crowded subway car — felt that they were in fear of imminent bodily harm. We simply don’t have enough facts to make that assumption.

R208 That's what the phrase [bold] And so far [/bold] means. Do you need to re-read my post?

OP why is the word "killer" in quotes? Is there some question as to the continued deadness of Mr. Neely?

He was killed. We all know who the killer is. The question is whether this killing was justified or not. I say it wasn't and think that the killer went too far. That's just my personal opinion.

It has no bearing on the fact that Mr Neely was in fact killed and is still dead.

R210 you’re posting like the majority here don’t think he was exterminated. Your humanity stands out like a sore thumb

I am currently sitting on a New York criminal grand jury for 10 days and we were told that we will not be receiving this case. They said it’s going to take at least several weeks for the gathering of evidence and the presentation of witnesses. So no indictment for the marine soon.

I really he gets off . Karma got Neely

So many murders going on in this country and all you hear about is this one and the shoplifter at Walgreen's. It's like homeless nutjobs have now been elevated to Holy Fool status. Then again, their loving families - who couldn't be bothered to feed or house them when they were alive - ran straight to ambulance chasers to make a killing off their killing. You've gotta admire how shameless they are.

And neither has hired Ben Crump?? Poor old Ben thought he was gonna make millions off Ed Sheeran. Somebody give Ben a job.

🇺🇸 Penny is a HERO who deserves better than this.

🏅 The brave Marine deserves a medal.

Penny should do jail time. What is the max he can get?

Has he been investigated for roid rage?

𝐂𝐨𝐧𝐜𝐞𝐫𝐧𝐞𝐝 𝐔𝐧𝐜𝐥𝐞 𝐚𝐫𝐫𝐞𝐬𝐭𝐞𝐝 𝐚𝐠𝐚𝐢𝐧 𝐨𝐧 𝐟𝐫𝐞𝐬𝐡 𝐟𝐞𝐥𝐨𝐧𝐢𝐞𝐬

Christopher Neely, the uncle of the man killed during a subway confrontation earlier this month, was arrested again Wednesday morning just before he was scheduled to appear in court on a myriad of grand larceny charges.

Neely, 44, was busted for allegedly stealing one wallet last August, another wallet in April and a $15,000 purse off the back of a chair at a lower Manhattan restaurant on May 18, cops said.

He was charged with three counts of grand larceny — on top of the 12 counts of grand larceny that he was already facing for his alleged crimes.

This was the second time in two weeks cops slipped the bracelets on Neely, who has acted as the family spokesman since his nephew, Jordan, was put in a fatal chokehold by former Marine Daniel Penny after an outburst on a Manhattan F Train on May 1.

Cops first picked Neely up on May 22 near the Port Authority Bus Terminal for allegedly snatching purses from restaurants and using the stolen credit cards at stores throughout Manhattan.

Prosecutors sought to hold Neely on $10,000 bail because he’d been on probation for a 2019 grand larceny case when arrested — and he had a warrant out for violating it.

𝐵𝑢𝑡 𝑎 𝑗𝑢𝑑𝑔𝑒 𝑟𝑒𝑙𝑒𝑎𝑠𝑒𝑑 𝑁𝑒𝑒𝑙𝑦 𝑢𝑛𝑑𝑒𝑟 𝑠𝑢𝑝𝑒𝑟𝑣𝑖𝑠𝑖𝑜𝑛 𝑎𝑓𝑡𝑒𝑟 ℎ𝑖𝑠 𝑝𝑢𝑏𝑙𝑖𝑐 𝑑𝑒𝑓𝑒𝑛𝑑𝑒𝑟, 𝐺𝑢𝑟𝑚𝑒𝑒𝑡 𝑆𝑖𝑛𝑔ℎ, 𝑎𝑟𝑔𝑢𝑒𝑑 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝐽𝑜𝑟𝑑𝑎𝑛’𝑠 𝑑𝑒𝑎𝑡ℎ ℎ𝑎𝑑 𝑡𝑎𝑘𝑒𝑛 𝑎 𝑡𝑒𝑟𝑟𝑖𝑏𝑙𝑒 𝑡𝑜𝑙𝑙 𝑜𝑛 ℎ𝑖𝑠 𝑓𝑎𝑚𝑖𝑙𝑦.

[quote]A lawyer will tell you that if he pleads guilty even to a misdemeanor, that will be enough to sue him into non-existence.

Sue for what? Legal fees?

There were no financial ramifications.

Interesting, a Marine Corps Sergeant who donated money towards Neely noted that Neely was not using a chokehold, but rather a headlock.

[quote] PS - it was a headlock not a choke hold. Chin in the crook of the elbow. Only takes seconds to via "choke hold" not 15 minutes.

There seems to be a criminal gene in the Neely family . No way should they benefit from this sad and unfortunate incident .

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